Marina Oswald Porter Talks to Oprah Winfrey

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Marina Oswald Porter Talks to Oprah Winfrey
First aired: November 22, 1996 Transcribed by R.J. DellaRosa

Legend
The following is presented here for research purposes only.

MOP Marina Oswald Porter

OW Oprah Winfrey

LAF Mary LaFontaine, co-author "Oswald Talked"

OS Oliver Stone, movie director of "JFK" et al.

TUN John Tunheim, Chairman ARRB

WW William Walters, former FBI agent

OW

The interview you're about to watch is nothing short of historic. For more than a decade now I've been trying to to speak with Marina Oswald Porter about the tragic events 33 years ago today when President Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, Texas. She has always declined my request but today she is here because she now has information that she wants to share with you America. Marina is an accident of history because of her husband's role in what many consider one of the saddest days in our country.

We've all seen this scene many times of President Kennedy's and his glamorous wife Jackie driving past the adoring lunchtime crowd on a dazzling Autumn day in Dallas when the sniper's shots rang out from the 6th floor warehouse that would end our nation's innocence. As our mortally wounded president was rushed to Parkland Hospital, the police quickly homed in on Lee Harvey Oswald, a luckless American who once defected to the Soviet Union.

But less than 48 hours later, we all watched in horror on live national television as Oswald was transferred from the Dallas jail. His assailant was Jack Ruby, a small time hoodlum and a strip club owner. Oswald's murder thrust his Russian-born wife Marina into the lime light. To this day that tragedy consumes Marina's life.

MOP
The cold and dreary and rainy weather today describes perfectly my insides' condition. I am not begging for mercy -- it's that justice should be done so that we can put everything behind and go on with life. So let's put it behind and celebrate JFK's birthday -- not that miserable day, the 22nd of November '63.

OW You seemed emotional as you watched the tape -- you didn't even watch.

MOP First of all, I want to thank you for your service to (the) human race -- al the show you did before.

OW You'd only been in this country 17 months on the fateful day in November.

MOP Yes.

OW Where were you when President Kennedy was shot and how did you hear?

MOP
I had a one month old baby to take care of and a toddler and I was living with a friend of ours -- not because we were separated but because of financial difficulties. And I was watching the parade. I did not understand English, but of course . . .

OW You didn't speak and English at the time?

MOP No . . .no. I could understand a few words.

OW Did you know who John F. Kennedy was?

MOP Yes

OW You were aware?

MOP And that's what I want (the) audience to know -- that everything good that I learned about John Kennedy came first from Lee and only through him. So, I can swear in front of everybody that Lee Harvey Oswald did not hate President Kennedy -- never did.

OW So, when you all discussed President Kennedy, it was always a good discussion? You thought he was a good man? A good president? Good for the country?

MOP Absolutely. He defended him in Russia.

OW Really?

MOP Yes, bragging about our young president and how well he'd do.

OW But when you were sitting in your house and all the police came to your door, did you, in any way, anticipate what they were coming to tell you? That your husband had been accused of killing the president?

MOP Well, it was a premonition of something went wrong because the lady I was living with, she was absent at the time . . .

OW The police came to the door.

MOP
No, no, no the limousine and the parade on the TV -- and when she came home she said, and of course I did not understand what this commotion was about, because I didn't understand English. So she said the President had been shot and it looked like it was from the building where Lee worked. Of course, I flashed, and I went outside and I said I hope it's not Lee because he was involved before that. Not political activities -- but he always played with politics. And General Walker that he claimed that he attempted . . .

OW Attempted to shoot?

MOP Attempted to shoot -- and I was just hoping that it's not him -- and I knew he did have the rifle.

OW You knew that Lee Harvey Oswald had the rifle? And you knew that was the building he worked in?

MOP
Yes -- and you know how something clicks -- and then when the police came and asked if your husband has that rifle in his possession, and in front of our Quaker friend, it was the most embarrassing thing to admit it -- that I hide a rifle in a person's house -- that I ate her bread and here I do --so, but what can you do? So the policeman and I and maybe Ruth Paine went to the garage and I showed them where the rifle was supposed to be. And when they opened the blanket, there was nothing there. So they told me to follow them and after that I wished the earth had swallowed me. Everything was like I was sleep walking, in a nightmare.

OW Did they say to you . . .

MOP
I knew that was the end, and the reporters shouting and the people, and I felt that the whole world was, rightfully so, against me -- and I just wanted to hide.

OW We have some footage of a press conference that Marina gave back at the time of the assassination 33 years ago. Take a look.

[film clip plays]

Off-cam Marina, do you believe that your husband killed President Kennedy?

MOP I don't want to believe it but I have too much facts, and facts tell me that, uh, Lee shot Kennedy.

Off-cam Did Lee ever tell you he was going to do this?

MOP No, he never does tell me this. This was a very bad surprise.

[film clip ends]

OW When you look at yourself then, were you like in a state of constant shock of disbelief?

MOP
Lee had been accused of killing the President. I had been testified for the Warren Commission. Their conclusions were that Lee Harvey Oswald was guilty of the crime. I was there to probably give the most damaging testimony about Lee Harvey Oswald and whatever hate you have over him, I cannot make him an angel with a good character. As a wife, I still say he wasn't a very pleasant person to be with and I'm the same way. We're both stubborn and whatever.

OW Was he abusive to you, Marina?

MOP Yes, he was.

OW Like, he hit you physically?

MOP
Yes, but now slowly but surely a different kind of picture of Lee in the public's eye appears, as the most hated man, a man who committed a horrible crime of the century, but at the same time as people learn to hate him more I discovered a different Lee that I did not know. I did not know about his childhood and his true underlying character whatever it was. That's the role he played. But that doesn't make him better. But guilty of the crime against Kennedy? He is not.

OW You do not believe your husband killed John F. Kennedy?

MOP
No -- and it's not an overnight conclusion and it's not because I read books, and this book and that book. It's the responsible statement to make in front of the country that I'm grateful to -- and when I did say that I think Lee killed President Kennedy.

OW You said that 33 years ago. You believed he did.

MOP
Absolutely. And the Warren Commission came to the conclusion and this question was asked after all the testimonies were done, "Mrs. Porter now with the evidence in front of you, what you know, what is your conclusion? Was your husband innocent or guilty? You cannot no because some evidence was there and in the middle of the table was a rifle which I identified as Lee's rifle and I was a stupid young girl and right now if you show me my husband's hunting rifle and I would be smart enough to say that I am not sure because up to this date I know nothing about this rifle. I'm not saying it was Lee's or not, but I trusted so blindly that it must be his rifle -- it was a stick with metal. That's all a rifle is to me up to this day.

OW A stick with metal. So it could have been any rifle?

MOP Yes. They say it is your husband's and I said "yes". I'm not saying it wasn't his, but that's how willingly I wanted to help.

OW Do you believe you were led by the Warren Commission?

MOP Not at the time. Nat at all. Here;s the people, kind to me after what my husband done.

OW Because the country responded to you with . . .

MOP
The people writing me letters, sending me money, putting me on my feet so that the country that can do that must have a wonderful government -- so that the people are so free to do that. I have nothing but I have to pay back which I am trying to do right now as well as for your hospitality, but I am concerned for which way the country is going right now.

OW Tell me this: do you believe that your husband had nothing to do with the killing -- or -- do you believe . . .

MOP Absolutely nothing.

OW You believe he had nothing? Zero?

MOP Okay, for 20 years I agreed with the Warren Commission.

OW
For 20 years, you agreed that Lee Harvey Oswald shot and acted alone and so part of what you're saying here is that the country that embraced you, because after it was believed that your husband killed President Kennedy, the country sent you money and people sent you flowers and gifts and embraced you and said "it's not your fault." So the American people opened up their hearts to you and you believe that a country where people could be that kind, that the government had to be right?

MOP You would have a guilty conscience as well. You start dwelling inside of you. What did I do not to prevent it?

OW
Correct. That's very interesting. When we come back, I want to talk to you about that because you, in many ways, behaved the way children do when their parents get divorced or when some things go wrong in the marriage and the children blame themselves. So, the fact that you were blaming yourself like it's your bad marriage that could cause this kind of tragedy is an amazing thought to me. When we come back, we're going to speak more about that. And Oswald gave up some critical information in his jail cell just before he was killed. No one ever knew about this before. When we come back, we'll meet a woman who uncovered this new evidence that solved one of the many riddles in this tragic case. The bottom line is we were lied to. But first, over the years we have discussed the JFK assassination on this show many times. I think those shows reflect both our fascination and our frustration with what seems like a never-ending mystery. Take a look.

[video clips of past shows with witnesses, Jean Hill, Oliver Stone and others]

[film clips showing Marguerite and Marina arriving at Dallas police on November 22, 1963]

OW You were saying to me that you're no longer afraid. Was there a time when you were afraid to speak out?

MOP No. I said I'm afraid right now even though it's freedom and things . . because I learned that maybe freedom, so far, but that I'm scared of the government right now.

OW You are?

MOP Oh, yes.

OW You still are?

MOP
Yes, absolutely. I wasn't then -- but I am now because the more you learn, the scarier it is, okay. I was very fortunate. I was brought up in one country, and I am not a Soviet spy or a communist, or it's not the system. I am Russian by nationality with the rich culture that every nationality has. And it was a new adopted country.

OW You never became an American citizen?

MOP
I became a citizen after 27 years that I lived in this country. It was a conscious decision. I wanted to earn it. That's why I think that right now I earn it -- I have a right to speak. I am a part of you. It's the home of my children and yours. I'm not defending Lee Harvey Oswald. If he was guilty, like one lawyer said, "Look at that face. Does that look like (the) face of (an) assassin?" And I looked. And I said, "Yes." How do you know? There's no such thing as the face of (an) assassin . . .that somebody (can) give a profile of an assassin?

OW Tell me why you now, you said you looked in his face at the time and you thought you saw guilt, and now, you think it was fear?

MOP
Number one, we were kind of freshly married. I was immature about analyzing the situation or anything, not that I am right now, but still with more experience now it comes, so you interpret things differently, only you can see me or anything else, only from (a) new perspective only as your knowledge goes.

OW You believed what you were told then. Why do you no longer believe?

MOP
I started getting evidence that supported, you know, just the factual things -- the witnesses -- why did they say it? Did the documents exist? So, by the time that I gave an interview on the 25th anniversary, I had enough confidence in (the) documentation. Lee Harvey Oswald is not guilty -- and I thought that in good America there are journalists and people who will come and work it. Now it's 33 years after that and we will go back and work on that and now it will say "alleged" assassin. So 25 years after (the) assassination, I knew he was not guilty, but I knew you needed more information. So I started getting some more because I know the answers, but how can I prove it to you, (so) that you could touch it, smell it and whatever.

OW Yeah, we want to . . . .

MOP Well you need to . . . you don't need to take my word for it.

OW This is what we need.

MOP Walter Cronkite said you believe him, why should you believe me because I'm the wife of . . .

OW . . the alleged assassin.

MOP The label is there and she doesn't like it so, you know . . .

OW Right

MOP I would not be here, believe me.

OW So, it's just that you don't like the fact that your husband has been labeled, in history, as the assassin

MOP In fact . . .

OW You believed him.

MOP
I dealt with it for 20 years. I learned to live with it from guilt too responsible, nothing that I done, I thought okay and I would feel much better and happier if that were so. But if it wasn't so, it has to be corrected at the beginning.

OW So, you're saying, for 20 years you lived and believed that he WAS the assassin?

MOP Yes and I did not know why the people made such a big, uh, just to write the books or make a big story out of nothing so when I started digging in -- I have been lied to.

OW You believe the Warren Commission lied to us?

MOP (The) conclusion? Yes, because the answers of Lee's innocence -- guess where I found it?

OW Where?

MOP In the Warren Commission Report, in the testimony. So every one of you, it's all in the documentation A lot of things admitted. So I learned . . .

OW Are you saying that the Warren Commission Report says he's innocent?

MOP No, I said I . . . the Warren Commission lied about their conclusion.

OW OK

MOP
. . . which is the report. And then comes the 26 volumes of the testimony, of the evidence, which does not support their conclusion -- only by omission. Another thing . . .

OW Do you think he was involved in some way?

MOP
I'll tell you in a second. I did not know that (the) Warren Commission had, not the Attorney General, but someone under him -- Katzenbach -- it was his memo, not ordering, but telling (the) Warren Commission that they must find Lee Harvey Oswald guilty. You don't conduct (an) investigation with presumptions.

OW . . . that you must find him guilty

MOP . . . so, when you read this, you can see how carefully they sifted only to get the thing to prove one thing.

OW . . . to prove the theory that one man did it alone.

MOP
Yes, and the witnesses or anybody who said differently or discarded and put away -- not the photographs, not the testimony -- nothing there. So when you dig the other half . . .

OW Your ex-husband said, Oswald said, when he was arrested, "I'm just a patsy."

MOP Do you think I believed him?

OW You didn't believe him at the time?

MOP No.

OW I believed him.

MOP Sorry.

OW Coming up, the woman who uncovered some critical information that Marina thinks will solve, finally for all of us, the mystery of President Kennedy's assassination 33 years ago today. We'll be right back to meet her.

[film clips of LHO at the DPD]

OW Marina Oswald Porter, she is the widow of Lee Harvey Oswald. Today marks the 33rd anniversary of the assassination of President Kennedy. Marina is here today because she wanted to call attention to some new evidence recently released. Take a look.

(V.O.)
The uproar over Oliver Stone's controversial movie "JFK", forced the government to release classified documents that captured the attention of journalists including Mary LaFontaine. She discovered for the first time that Lee Harvey Oswald had a cellmate in the Dallas city jail.

LAF (V.O.)
This is the cell where Lee Harvey Oswald was brought after the assassination of President Kennedy. For many years, we were told that Oswald was here here alone. But we now know we were lied to and that Oswald had a cellmate.

OW (V.O.)
The cellmate that Mary uncovered verified that Oswald and Jack Ruby did know each other, even though officials had denied that there was a connection for decades.

[film clips showing DPD denying rumors that Ruby and Oswald knew each other]

OW (V.O.) But Mary's new evidence of the Oswald - Ruby connection both took the theory that John F. Kennedy's assassination was, in fact, a conspiracy.

OW
Mary LaFontaine's new book which she wrote with her husband Ray is called "Oswald Talked. The New Evidence in the JFK Assassination." Welcome to the show.

LAF Thank you.

OW So, we were lied to. Why were we lied to? Why would they lie about that?

LAF Well, I think it's very important because if Oswald and Ruby knew each other then Ruby shot Oswald to silence him, and there was a conspiracy.

OW Well, I always believed that. Even when I was 9 years old, when it happened.

LAF
Yes, exactly. I think that's been true from the very day it happened. I think when those of us who are old enough saw Ruby shoot Oswald that we knew there was something wrong, there was some kind of conspiracy and this man was being silenced. But we did not know for 28 years that, in fact, that was the case.

OW
OK, so we're going to talk about Mr. Elrod, who was in the cell with him. How could that -- was it covered up or overlooked?

LAF It was covered up.

OW The fact that there was another cellmate?

LAF Absolutely.

OW How were you able to prove that Elrod was in that cell?

LAF Uh, in 1992, the Dallas Police Department files were finally opened -- previously secret files. In those files . . .

OW Was this the results of Oliver Stone's movie?

LAP
Uh, yes. The Dallas City Council released these files. In these files, was the arrest record for John Elrod who actually was charged with, uh, investigation into the assassination himself. Oswald was actually only charged at the time for the murder of Officer Tippit, so here was Elrod and Oswald and another prisoner placed together because they were all suspects at the time. While they were in the cell, another man was brought in and Oswald identified that man and said that he had seen him in a motel room meeting where money and guns changed hands. We were able from other records to identify who that man was -- he is a known person, now deceased, who was involved with a gun-running operation with Jack Ruby. This is all from court records and official documents, that this actually happened.

OW Did Oswald mention Jack Ruby's name in that cell?

LAF He did indeed. He said he was in a motel room meeting with Jack Ruby present where money and guns changed hands. Yes, he did.

OW Well now, so this tells us what?

LAF
It tells us, first of all, that there was a conspiracy and it tells us more than that Oprah if I can give a little small chronology. In the week prior to the assassination, on November 14, a National Guard Armory was burglarized in Texas. On November 16, just 2 days later, Lee Harvey Oswald met with the FBI in Dallas. The following day November 17 . . .

OW How do we know that?

LAF We know that from a Dallas Morning News story. I have talked with the man who wrote the story and he had official sources for this.

OW Okay.

LAF
On the next day, a teletype went out warning that President Kennedy might be assassinated in Dallas later that week. The final day after that, on November 18, 2 days (sic) after Oswald visited the FBI office, 2 men were arrested with a carload of guns. One of them worked for Jack Ruby. It was one of those men that Oswald identified in his cell.

OW I've got you.

LAF Oswald was the informant on that arrest.

OW Was Oswald a double agent or something?

LAF He was indeed.

OW He WAS a double agent?

LAF He was an FBI informant who was infiltrating Cuban exile groups -- right wing subversive groups.

MOP That was his role -- that he played, you know, to infiltrate -- but he could not tell me that. That's what the arguments . . .

OW You did not know this at the time?

MOP No.

OW
Coming up, as we mentioned, Mary's interview with the man who shared that jail cell with Lee Harvey Oswald, John Elrod. She talks to him. When we come back, we'll show you some of that exclusive interview, and find out why he fled Dallas after Oswald was killed. I would have been fleeing too -- I would've been getting out of Dallas -- yes I would have -- back in a moment.

[film clips of motorcade]

OW
So, you don't speak any English and they say your husband just shot the President. More from marina Oswald in a moment.

We're here with Mary LaFontaine who, with her husband, has written a new book on this case. A key figure in Mary's book is a man who shared a jail cell in Dallas with Oswald. That cellmate's name is John Elrod. For years we/ve been told that there was not another person in the cell, but now we find out there was. Elrod is important in this case because he verifies there was a link between Oswald and his killer Jack Ruby. Remember all these years we've been told they didn't know each other. Mary tracked down John Elrod and this is some of what he told her.

Elrod
I just don't remember. I was arrested for the murder down there and I was in a cell with Oswald and that was it. Why did I leave Dallas? I was uncomfortable. Why? After as long as I lived there? Why? I feared for my life.

LAF Why did you fear for your life?

Elrod If Jack Ruby could've gotten that close to Oswald to kill him, I just didn't feel comfortable.

OW And so, you believe what, Mary?

LAF As for the assassination is concerned?

OW Uh huh.

LAF
I believe there was a conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy. I believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was an FBI informant who was reporting on a group that was suspect in this assassination -- this group was planning an invasion of Cuba the last week in November 1963 -- Oswald was reporting on this to the FBI. I believe he was set up as a patsy to neutralize the FBI.

OW He was set up as a patsy. But what about the gun? They found the gun in the book depository.

LAF
They found his gun in the book depository or one that was ordered by him. It had no fresh fingerprints on it. The prints that were on that rifle were months or, at the least, weeks old. Oswald did not handle that rifle on November 22 and the Chief of Police in Dallas stated they never could put Oswald in that window with that gun in his hand. And I do want to say one other thing Oprah: I did research and interviews for the book and my husband Ray wrote the book and I feel that it is well explained in the book -- the complexities of our situation.

OW The book is called "Oswald Talked."

Hollywood director Oliver Stone, who did the movie "JFK" as well as "Platoon" and "Wall Street" and lots of others, has taken a special interest in Mary LaFontaine's book -- Mary and Ray's book. We asked him to be here today, but he's making a new movie, Oliver is, and couldn't, but we did talk with him on his movie set and this is what Oliver Stone had to say.

OS
Hi Oprah, how are you? I'm sorry I can't be there in Chicago but I am very happy the LaFontaines are on the show. As you know, their book in a sense resulted from the release of documents that resulted from the release of the movie "JFK" a few years ago. It was quite an uproar and President Bush finally signed it into legislation. But only 3 million pages of documents have been released and there are many, many millions more that have not been released. And if this act had not been passed, these records would have been sealed until the middle of the 21st century which is devastating to a sense of what the truth is in this country. I think the LaFontaines must be taken seriously. They have done strong research, good research, and they are honorable people. And they certainly are patriots to probe into the mystery of the murder in Dallas. His death, President Kennedy's death, was to me, robbed my generation of its idealism and its youth and i salute the LaFontaines for sticking with this in spite of very little attention and heavy obstacles.

OW
Oliver Stone also told us that he did not endorse all of the conclusions in Mary's book but that he admires the LaFontaines for their efforts. We have here today though the man who chairs the committee that oversees the release of the remaining JFK documents. John Tunheim is the chairman of the Assassinations Record Review Board and he can explain why all the evidence that Oliver Stone mentioned has not yet been made public. We're going to be talking with him in a moment. We'll be right back.

Mr. Tunheim, why weren't all the documents in this case been released yet? Why?

TUN
Well, the Congress has asked that all records be reviewed and released if at all possible and the Review Board actually has released many of these 3 million pages of records that Mr. Stone mentioned in that segment.

OW
Had Oliver Stone not done that movie and put such pressure on the government to release them we wouldn't have them today. Isn't that true?

TUN Well, he certainly put a lot of pressure on the Congress and constituents put a lot of pressure on the Congress.

OW Till the 21st century?? What good is that going to do us?

TUN Well these records should have been released many years ago.

OW Why weren't they?

TUN
Well, there's a culture of secrecy. Many of the records are at the CIA, at the FBI and we're doing our best to get them released as quickly as possible.

OW
John has some film that has never been released before. It was shot by a key aide to President Kennedy who was with him in Dallas that day 33 years ago. John, why don't you tell us what we're looking at as we watch the tape.

[portions of the Dave Powers film are shown]

TUN (V.O.)
This is a film that was shot by a very close presidential aide, Dave Powers, being released today for the first time. He was riding in the limousine right behind the President as they began that fateful journey down Main Street. Unfortunately, the tape stops shortly before they turn onto Dealey Plaza. The man had quite a window on the Presidential limo as you see it taking its path down Main Street there and before long it will turn just before it reaches Dealey Plaza, Dave Powers runs out of film.

MOP Can I ask you a question?

TUN Certainly.

MOP Do you have children?

TUN I do.

MOP Wonderful. Do you love this country?

TUN I do.

MOP Then we have lots in common. Do you have a conscience? I hope so. I think you do.

TUN Well, we're looking for the truth which is what I think you want to find too.

MOP
Well, yes, I appreciate that. Somebody has to do it and I'm glad the Committee is, but there is too much nonsense and there's a big stack -- lots of paper -- save the trees -- get the papers that got the answers. 33 years is too long for me to wait. I want my children and your children living in a country as good as we are or a little bit better. This is our obligation -- that's the only reason that I'm asking you.

OW You say there are specific documents that need to be released.

MOP
There are some documents which the FBI is supposed to release. This is the man in the audience, Mr. Walters. [looking at Tunheim] I wrote a letter to you. You didn't respond, but Mr. Walters did. So, he said, in general, that (the) FBI opinion is that they do not want to release this. It's something I've known for 33 years. Did you read the letter?

TUN Yes, I did.

MOP
I said a second time, would you please be so kind and request the documents first? Go to Minsk and see it. There is nothing there. It is a waste of (the) taxpayers' money. I read yesterday in a book documents from Minsk -- my registration of marriage to Lee Harvey Oswald dated April 31 -- I went to 5 calendars -- April only has 30 days -- so this is how accurate they are. So, please don't waste your time.

OW
So, Marina is saying there are a lot of things being released, Mr. Tunheim, a lot of things being released that really are not going to help us learn anything. There are millions and millions of pages and she's saying that there are specific pages that would give the American people the answers that we want, so just release those papers and let us be healed.

TUN
If those papers were in our hands they would be released. We are following up on her request and doing our best and we've asked her to cooperate as well with obtaining access to Lee Harvey Oswald's tax files which could give us some more of an inquiry into this person.

OW Coming up, the FBI got a tip . . .

MOP [interrupts] It's nonsense.

OW You're saying his tax files aren't going to tell them anything?

MOP
Absolutely nothing. It's more important then you can have his tax files in 75 years and examine everything. It's not important.

LAF But it IS important.

OW We just want it to be over. We'd like to know what the truth is and then have it be over.

MOP So you can go on with your life.

TUN
That's really our job. We have a strong presumption of openness and there's only a very little amount of material that's being redacted from the records for reasons of national security, but they don't have any relationship to the assassination itself. The records themselves are being released. 2 to 3 million pages right now are available at the National Archives. We're looking for more.

OW
Coming up: the FBI got a tip before President Kennedy was killed, warning of an assassination plot. When we come back, we'll meet the FBI man who got that warning. Hear how it is linked back to Oswald -- in just a moment.

We're talking with Marina Oswald Porter, the widow of Lee Harvey Oswald, on the 33rd anniversary of the death of President Kennedy. She's here with Mary LaFontaine who's written a book with new evidence in this case called "Oswald Talked." One of the people Mary interviewed was William Walters who is a former FBI agent who is also with us today. William got a teletype warning of an assassination plot days just before President Kennedy was killed and how was that handled?

WW
Oprah, the FBI office in New Orleans was one of the field offices that had a responsibility to cover what the FBI called "the movement of the President of the U.S.". We received the teletype on Sunday morning prior to the assassination as well as other offices of the FBI field office chain.

OW That there was a plot?

WW
That information had been developed by an informant somewhere around the country -- that there would be an attempt to assassinate the President on his trip to Dallas.

OW And how was that handles?

WW
Well, my responsibility at that time was to report it to my supervisors and then the case agents that handle those kinds of "movement" teletypes -- I did, in fact, call the the special agent in charge of the New Orleans office that early morning hours of Sunday, and, then, in turn, called the case agents and asked them to develop contacts with their informants to determine if there was any validity to that warning threat.

OW And?

WW
Well, I, of course, left the office the following morning and didn't think much of it because it was not much of an unusual kind of teletype for the FBI to get. In this particular case Friday afternoon it became very important to determine what happened to the teletype and I, along with some other colleagues of mine, searched the office and found that the teletype had been pulled out of the file and was on the SAIC's desk and couldn't determine if an investigation or, if informants had been contacted during the week, so I couldn't really know what happened to it.

OW Why is this significant?

LAF
It's significant because the teletype that Mr. Walters made a copy of back 33 years ago has disappeared from the FBI files. It contains information about a group that we know that Lee Harvey Oswald was infiltrating for the FBI and we believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was the informant gave the information about the teletype Mr. Walters received. He didn't know that. At the time he only knew he got a teletype. He also saw an informant file on Lee Harvey Oswald in the New Orleans FBI office. He gave this as sworn testimony to the HSCA many years ago. His testimony was only released recently and these important details are finally connecting the many pieces that we've gotten over the years in this case. It was very significant.

OW
This is probably going to be one of my final times to be able to talk to you because it;s taken so long to talk the first time . . .

MOP I don't want to go from show to show but I want people to know maybe the next year, to know for sure that Lee Harvey Oswald did not kill President Kennedy. The shots didn't even come from the window and Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't proved to be at that window. So it all was set up and the blame was put on that person. So that you have to know. Without honest, historical facts, you cannot plan your life.

OW How do your children -- I know you re-married and your current husband raised your daughters, but did they have this monkey on their backs also?

MOP I hope not. I tried to raise them, not in a glass shelter, but to protect them from . . .

OW What do you tell them about their father?

MOP
Well, at the time, I told them that your father is guilty in my opinion. That's a horrible crime -- you have to be strong enough to deal with it and you should be judged only by what you contribute and what you do. (If) you do bad, you deserve the punishment and don't hide behind it. So, they turned out to be good American citizens. So I give them my best. I'm only the mother and I raised decent human beings.

OW We'll be right back. [to marina] That's the best you can do.

Thank you Marina Oswald Porter for joining us today.

Legend	The following is presented here for research purposes only.
MOP	Marina Oswald Porter
OW	Oprah Winfrey
LAF	Mary LaFontaine, co-author "Oswald Talked"
OS	Oliver Stone, movie director of "JFK" et al.
TUN	John Tunheim, Chairman ARRB
WW	William Walters, former FBI agent

OW	The interview you're about to watch is nothing short of historic. For more than a decade now I've been trying to to speak with Marina Oswald Porter about the tragic events 33 years ago today when President Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, Texas. She has always declined my request but today she is here because she now has information that she wants to share with you America. Marina is an accident of history because of her husband's role in what many consider one of the saddest days in our country. We've all seen this scene many times of President Kennedy's and his glamorous wife Jackie driving past the adoring lunchtime crowd on a dazzling Autumn day in Dallas when the sniper's shots rang out from the 6th floor warehouse that would end our nation's innocence. As our mortally wounded president was rushed to Parkland Hospital, the police quickly homed in on Lee Harvey Oswald, a luckless American who once defected to the Soviet Union. But less than 48 hours later, we all watched in horror on live national television as Oswald was transferred from the Dallas jail. His assailant was Jack Ruby, a small time hoodlum and a strip club owner. Oswald's murder thrust his Russian-born wife Marina into the lime light. To this day that tragedy consumes Marina's life.
MOP	The cold and dreary and rainy weather today describes perfectly my insides' condition. I am not begging for mercy -- it's that justice should be done so that we can put everything behind and go on with life. So let's put it behind and celebrate JFK's birthday -- not that miserable day, the 22nd of November '63.
OW	You seemed emotional as you watched the tape -- you didn't even watch.
MOP	First of all, I want to thank you for your service to (the) human race -- al the show you did before.
OW	You'd only been in this country 17 months on the fateful day in November.
MOP	Yes.
OW	Where were you when President Kennedy was shot and how did you hear?
MOP	I had a one month old baby to take care of and a toddler and I was living with a friend of ours -- not because we were separated but because of financial difficulties. And I was watching the parade. I did not understand English, but of course . . .
OW	You didn't speak and English at the time?
MOP	No . . .no. I could understand a few words.
OW	Did you know who John F. Kennedy was?
MOP	Yes
OW	You were aware?
MOP	And that's what I want (the) audience to know -- that everything good that I learned about John Kennedy came first from Lee and only through him. So, I can swear in front of everybody that Lee Harvey Oswald did not hate President Kennedy -- never did.
OW	So, when you all discussed President Kennedy, it was always a good discussion? You thought he was a good man? A good president? Good for the country?
MOP	Absolutely. He defended him in Russia.
OW	Really?
MOP	Yes, bragging about our young president and how well he'd do.
OW	But when you were sitting in your house and all the police came to your door, did you, in any way, anticipate what they were coming to tell you? That your husband had been accused of killing the president?
MOP	Well, it was a premonition of something went wrong because the lady I was living with, she was absent at the time . . .
OW	The police came to the door.
MOP	No, no, no the limousine and the parade on the TV -- and when she came home she said, and of course I did not understand what this commotion was about, because I didn't understand English. So she said the President had been shot and it looked like it was from the building where Lee worked. Of course, I flashed, and I went outside and I said I hope it's not Lee because he was involved before that. Not political activities -- but he always played with politics. And General Walker that he claimed that he attempted . . .
OW	Attempted to shoot?
MOP	Attempted to shoot -- and I was just hoping that it's not him -- and I knew he did have the rifle.
OW	You knew that Lee Harvey Oswald had the rifle? And you knew that was the building he worked in?
MOP	Yes -- and you know how something clicks -- and then when the police came and asked if your husband has that rifle in his possession, and in front of our Quaker friend, it was the most embarrassing thing to admit it -- that I hide a rifle in a person's house -- that I ate her bread and here I do --so, but what can you do? So the policeman and I and maybe Ruth Paine went to the garage and I showed them where the rifle was supposed to be. And when they opened the blanket, there was nothing there. So they told me to follow them and after that I wished the earth had swallowed me. Everything was like I was sleep walking, in a nightmare.
OW	Did they say to you . . .
MOP	I knew that was the end, and the reporters shouting and the people, and I felt that the whole world was, rightfully so, against me -- and I just wanted to hide.
OW	We have some footage of a press conference that Marina gave back at the time of the assassination 33 years ago. Take a look.
	[film clip plays]
Off-cam	Marina, do you believe that your husband killed President Kennedy?
MOP	I don't want to believe it but I have too much facts, and facts tell me that, uh, Lee shot Kennedy.
Off-cam	Did Lee ever tell you he was going to do this?
MOP	No, he never does tell me this. This was a very bad surprise.
	[film clip ends]
OW	When you look at yourself then, were you like in a state of constant shock of disbelief?
MOP	Lee had been accused of killing the President. I had been testified for the Warren Commission. Their conclusions were that Lee Harvey Oswald was guilty of the crime. I was there to probably give the most damaging testimony about Lee Harvey Oswald and whatever hate you have over him, I cannot make him an angel with a good character. As a wife, I still say he wasn't a very pleasant person to be with and I'm the same way. We're both stubborn and whatever.
OW	Was he abusive to you, Marina?
MOP	Yes, he was.
OW	Like, he hit you physically?
MOP	Yes, but now slowly but surely a different kind of picture of Lee in the public's eye appears, as the most hated man, a man who committed a horrible crime of the century, but at the same time as people learn to hate him more I discovered a different Lee that I did not know. I did not know about his childhood and his true underlying character whatever it was. That's the role he played. But that doesn't make him better. But guilty of the crime against Kennedy? He is not.
OW	You do not believe your husband killed John F. Kennedy?
MOP	No -- and it's not an overnight conclusion and it's not because I read books, and this book and that book. It's the responsible statement to make in front of the country that I'm grateful to -- and when I did say that I think Lee killed President Kennedy.
OW	You said that 33 years ago. You believed he did.
MOP	Absolutely. And the Warren Commission came to the conclusion and this question was asked after all the testimonies were done, "Mrs. Porter now with the evidence in front of you, what you know, what is your conclusion? Was your husband innocent or guilty? You cannot no because some evidence was there and in the middle of the table was a rifle which I identified as Lee's rifle and I was a stupid young girl and right now if you show me my husband's hunting rifle and I would be smart enough to say that I am not sure because up to this date I know nothing about this rifle. I'm not saying it was Lee's or not, but I trusted so blindly that it must be his rifle -- it was a stick with metal. That's all a rifle is to me up to this day.
OW	A stick with metal. So it could have been any rifle?
MOP	Yes. They say it is your husband's and I said "yes". I'm not saying it wasn't his, but that's how willingly I wanted to help.
OW	Do you believe you were led by the Warren Commission?
MOP	Not at the time. Nat at all. Here;s the people, kind to me after what my husband done.
OW	Because the country responded to you with . . .
MOP	The people writing me letters, sending me money, putting me on my feet so that the country that can do that must have a wonderful government -- so that the people are so free to do that. I have nothing but I have to pay back which I am trying to do right now as well as for your hospitality, but I am concerned for which way the country is going right now.
OW	Tell me this: do you believe that your husband had nothing to do with the killing -- or -- do you believe . . .
MOP	Absolutely nothing.
OW	You believe he had nothing? Zero?
MOP	Okay, for 20 years I agreed with the Warren Commission.
OW	For 20 years, you agreed that Lee Harvey Oswald shot and acted alone and so part of what you're saying here is that the country that embraced you, because after it was believed that your husband killed President Kennedy, the country sent you money and people sent you flowers and gifts and embraced you and said "it's not your fault." So the American people opened up their hearts to you and you believe that a country where people could be that kind, that the government had to be right?
MOP	You would have a guilty conscience as well. You start dwelling inside of you. What did I do not to prevent it?
OW	Correct. That's very interesting. When we come back, I want to talk to you about that because you, in many ways, behaved the way children do when their parents get divorced or when some things go wrong in the marriage and the children blame themselves. So, the fact that you were blaming yourself like it's your bad marriage that could cause this kind of tragedy is an amazing thought to me. When we come back, we're going to speak more about that. And Oswald gave up some critical information in his jail cell just before he was killed. No one ever knew about this before. When we come back, we'll meet a woman who uncovered this new evidence that solved one of the many riddles in this tragic case. The bottom line is we were lied to. But first, over the years we have discussed the JFK assassination on this show many times. I think those shows reflect both our fascination and our frustration with what seems like a never-ending mystery. Take a look.
	[video clips of past shows with witnesses, Jean Hill, Oliver Stone and others]
	[film clips showing Marguerite and Marina arriving at Dallas police on November 22, 1963]
OW	You were saying to me that you're no longer afraid. Was there a time when you were afraid to speak out?
MOP	No. I said I'm afraid right now even though it's freedom and things . . because I learned that maybe freedom, so far, but that I'm scared of the government right now.
OW	You are?
MOP	Oh, yes.
OW	You still are?
MOP	Yes, absolutely. I wasn't then -- but I am now because the more you learn, the scarier it is, okay. I was very fortunate. I was brought up in one country, and I am not a Soviet spy or a communist, or it's not the system. I am Russian by nationality with the rich culture that every nationality has. And it was a new adopted country.
OW	You never became an American citizen?
MOP	I became a citizen after 27 years that I lived in this country. It was a conscious decision. I wanted to earn it. That's why I think that right now I earn it -- I have a right to speak. I am a part of you. It's the home of my children and yours. I'm not defending Lee Harvey Oswald. If he was guilty, like one lawyer said, "Look at that face. Does that look like (the) face of (an) assassin?" And I looked. And I said, "Yes." How do you know? There's no such thing as the face of (an) assassin . . .that somebody (can) give a profile of an assassin?
OW	Tell me why you now, you said you looked in his face at the time and you thought you saw guilt, and now, you think it was fear?
MOP	Number one, we were kind of freshly married. I was immature about analyzing the situation or anything, not that I am right now, but still with more experience now it comes, so you interpret things differently, only you can see me or anything else, only from (a) new perspective only as your knowledge goes.
OW	You believed what you were told then. Why do you no longer believe?
MOP	I started getting evidence that supported, you know, just the factual things -- the witnesses -- why did they say it? Did the documents exist? So, by the time that I gave an interview on the 25th anniversary, I had enough confidence in (the) documentation. Lee Harvey Oswald is not guilty -- and I thought that in good America there are journalists and people who will come and work it. Now it's 33 years after that and we will go back and work on that and now it will say "alleged" assassin. So 25 years after (the) assassination, I knew he was not guilty, but I knew you needed more information. So I started getting some more because I know the answers, but how can I prove it to you, (so) that you could touch it, smell it and whatever.
OW	Yeah, we want to . . . .
MOP	Well you need to . . . you don't need to take my word for it.
OW	This is what we need.
MOP	Walter Cronkite said you believe him, why should you believe me because I'm the wife of . . .
OW	. . the alleged assassin.
MOP	The label is there and she doesn't like it so, you know . . .
OW	Right
MOP	I would not be here, believe me.
OW	So, it's just that you don't like the fact that your husband has been labeled, in history, as the assassin
MOP	In fact . . .
OW	You believed him.
MOP	I dealt with it for 20 years. I learned to live with it from guilt too responsible, nothing that I done, I thought okay and I would feel much better and happier if that were so. But if it wasn't so, it has to be corrected at the beginning.
OW	So, you're saying, for 20 years you lived and believed that he WAS the assassin?
MOP	Yes and I did not know why the people made such a big, uh, just to write the books or make a big story out of nothing so when I started digging in -- I have been lied to.
OW	You believe the Warren Commission lied to us?
MOP	(The) conclusion? Yes, because the answers of Lee's innocence -- guess where I found it?
OW	Where?
MOP	In the Warren Commission Report, in the testimony. So every one of you, it's all in the documentation A lot of things admitted. So I learned . . .
OW	Are you saying that the Warren Commission Report says he's innocent?
MOP	No, I said I . . . the Warren Commission lied about their conclusion.
OW	OK
MOP	. . . which is the report. And then comes the 26 volumes of the testimony, of the evidence, which does not support their conclusion -- only by omission. Another thing . . .
OW	Do you think he was involved in some way?
MOP	I'll tell you in a second. I did not know that (the) Warren Commission had, not the Attorney General, but someone under him -- Katzenbach -- it was his memo, not ordering, but telling (the) Warren Commission that they must find Lee Harvey Oswald guilty. You don't conduct (an) investigation with presumptions.

OW	. . . that you must find him guilty
MOP	. . . so, when you read this, you can see how carefully they sifted only to get the thing to prove one thing.
OW	. . . to prove the theory that one man did it alone.
MOP	Yes, and the witnesses or anybody who said differently or discarded and put away -- not the photographs, not the testimony -- nothing there. So when you dig the other half . . .
OW	Your ex-husband said, Oswald said, when he was arrested, "I'm just a patsy."
MOP	Do you think I believed him?
OW	You didn't believe him at the time?
MOP	No.
OW	I believed him.
MOP	Sorry.
OW	Coming up, the woman who uncovered some critical information that Marina thinks will solve, finally for all of us, the mystery of President Kennedy's assassination 33 years ago today. We'll be right back to meet her.
	[film clips of LHO at the DPD]
OW	Marina Oswald Porter, she is the widow of Lee Harvey Oswald. Today marks the 33rd anniversary of the assassination of President Kennedy. Marina is here today because she wanted to call attention to some new evidence recently released. Take a look.
(V.O.)	The uproar over Oliver Stone's controversial movie "JFK", forced the government to release classified documents that captured the attention of journalists including Mary LaFontaine. She discovered for the first time that Lee Harvey Oswald had a cellmate in the Dallas city jail.
LAF (V.O.)	This is the cell where Lee Harvey Oswald was brought after the assassination of President Kennedy. For many years, we were told that Oswald was here here alone. But we now know we were lied to and that Oswald had a cellmate.
OW (V.O.)	The cellmate that Mary uncovered verified that Oswald and Jack Ruby did know each other, even though officials had denied that there was a connection for decades.
	[film clips showing DPD denying rumors that Ruby and Oswald knew each other]
OW (V.O.)	But Mary's new evidence of the Oswald - Ruby connection both took the theory that John F. Kennedy's assassination was, in fact, a conspiracy.
OW	Mary LaFontaine's new book which she wrote with her husband Ray is called "Oswald Talked. The New Evidence in the JFK Assassination." Welcome to the show.
LAF	Thank you.
OW	So, we were lied to. Why were we lied to? Why would they lie about that?
LAF	Well, I think it's very important because if Oswald and Ruby knew each other then Ruby shot Oswald to silence him, and there was a conspiracy.
OW	Well, I always believed that. Even when I was 9 years old, when it happened.
LAF	Yes, exactly. I think that's been true from the very day it happened. I think when those of us who are old enough saw Ruby shoot Oswald that we knew there was something wrong, there was some kind of conspiracy and this man was being silenced. But we did not know for 28 years that, in fact, that was the case.
OW	OK, so we're going to talk about Mr. Elrod, who was in the cell with him. How could that -- was it covered up or overlooked?
LAF	It was covered up.
OW	The fact that there was another cellmate?
LAF	Absolutely.
OW	How were you able to prove that Elrod was in that cell?
LAF	Uh, in 1992, the Dallas Police Department files were finally opened -- previously secret files. In those files . . .
OW	Was this the results of Oliver Stone's movie?
LAP	Uh, yes. The Dallas City Council released these files. In these files, was the arrest record for John Elrod who actually was charged with, uh, investigation into the assassination himself. Oswald was actually only charged at the time for the murder of Officer Tippit, so here was Elrod and Oswald and another prisoner placed together because they were all suspects at the time. While they were in the cell, another man was brought in and Oswald identified that man and said that he had seen him in a motel room meeting where money and guns changed hands. We were able from other records to identify who that man was -- he is a known person, now deceased, who was involved with a gun-running operation with Jack Ruby. This is all from court records and official documents, that this actually happened.
OW	Did Oswald mention Jack Ruby's name in that cell?
LAF	He did indeed. He said he was in a motel room meeting with Jack Ruby present where money and guns changed hands. Yes, he did.
OW	Well now, so this tells us what?
LAF	It tells us, first of all, that there was a conspiracy and it tells us more than that Oprah if I can give a little small chronology. In the week prior to the assassination, on November 14, a National Guard Armory was burglarized in Texas. On November 16, just 2 days later, Lee Harvey Oswald met with the FBI in Dallas. The following day November 17 . . .
OW	How do we know that?
LAF	We know that from a Dallas Morning News story. I have talked with the man who wrote the story and he had official sources for this.
OW	Okay.
LAF	On the next day, a teletype went out warning that President Kennedy might be assassinated in Dallas later that week. The final day after that, on November 18, 2 days (sic) after Oswald visited the FBI office, 2 men were arrested with a carload of guns. One of them worked for Jack Ruby. It was one of those men that Oswald identified in his cell.
OW	I've got you.
LAF	Oswald was the informant on that arrest.
OW	Was Oswald a double agent or something?
LAF	He was indeed.
OW	He WAS a double agent?
LAF	He was an FBI informant who was infiltrating Cuban exile groups -- right wing subversive groups.
MOP	That was his role -- that he played, you know, to infiltrate -- but he could not tell me that. That's what the arguments . . .
OW	You did not know this at the time?
MOP	No.
OW	Coming up, as we mentioned, Mary's interview with the man who shared that jail cell with Lee Harvey Oswald, John Elrod. She talks to him. When we come back, we'll show you some of that exclusive interview, and find out why he fled Dallas after Oswald was killed. I would have been fleeing too -- I would've been getting out of Dallas -- yes I would have -- back in a moment.
	[film clips of motorcade]
OW	So, you don't speak any English and they say your husband just shot the President. More from marina Oswald in a moment.
	We're here with Mary LaFontaine who, with her husband, has written a new book on this case. A key figure in Mary's book is a man who shared a jail cell in Dallas with Oswald. That cellmate's name is John Elrod. For years we/ve been told that there was not another person in the cell, but now we find out there was. Elrod is important in this case because he verifies there was a link between Oswald and his killer Jack Ruby. Remember all these years we've been told they didn't know each other. Mary tracked down John Elrod and this is some of what he told her.
Elrod	I just don't remember. I was arrested for the murder down there and I was in a cell with Oswald and that was it. Why did I leave Dallas? I was uncomfortable. Why? After as long as I lived there? Why? I feared for my life.
LAF	Why did you fear for your life?
Elrod	If Jack Ruby could've gotten that close to Oswald to kill him, I just didn't feel comfortable.
OW	And so, you believe what, Mary?
LAF	As for the assassination is concerned?
OW	Uh huh.
LAF	I believe there was a conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy. I believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was an FBI informant who was reporting on a group that was suspect in this assassination -- this group was planning an invasion of Cuba the last week in November 1963 -- Oswald was reporting on this to the FBI. I believe he was set up as a patsy to neutralize the FBI.
OW	He was set up as a patsy. But what about the gun? They found the gun in the book depository.
LAF	They found his gun in the book depository or one that was ordered by him. It had no fresh fingerprints on it. The prints that were on that rifle were months or, at the least, weeks old. Oswald did not handle that rifle on November 22 and the Chief of Police in Dallas stated they never could put Oswald in that window with that gun in his hand. And I do want to say one other thing Oprah: I did research and interviews for the book and my husband Ray wrote the book and I feel that it is well explained in the book -- the complexities of our situation.
OW	The book is called "Oswald Talked."
	Hollywood director Oliver Stone, who did the movie "JFK" as well as "Platoon" and "Wall Street" and lots of others, has taken a special interest in Mary LaFontaine's book -- Mary and Ray's book. We asked him to be here today, but he's making a new movie, Oliver is, and couldn't, but we did talk with him on his movie set and this is what Oliver Stone had to say.
OS	Hi Oprah, how are you? I'm sorry I can't be there in Chicago but I am very happy the LaFontaines are on the show. As you know, their book in a sense resulted from the release of documents that resulted from the release of the movie "JFK" a few years ago. It was quite an uproar and President Bush finally signed it into legislation. But only 3 million pages of documents have been released and there are many, many millions more that have not been released. And if this act had not been passed, these records would have been sealed until the middle of the 21st century which is devastating to a sense of what the truth is in this country. I think the LaFontaines must be taken seriously. They have done strong research, good research, and they are honorable people. And they certainly are patriots to probe into the mystery of the murder in Dallas. His death, President Kennedy's death, was to me, robbed my generation of its idealism and its youth and i salute the LaFontaines for sticking with this in spite of very little attention and heavy obstacles.
OW	Oliver Stone also told us that he did not endorse all of the conclusions in Mary's book but that he admires the LaFontaines for their efforts. We have here today though the man who chairs the committee that oversees the release of the remaining JFK documents. John Tunheim is the chairman of the Assassinations Record Review Board and he can explain why all the evidence that Oliver Stone mentioned has not yet been made public. We're going to be talking with him in a moment. We'll be right back.
	Mr. Tunheim, why weren't all the documents in this case been released yet? Why?
TUN	Well, the Congress has asked that all records be reviewed and released if at all possible and the Review Board actually has released many of these 3 million pages of records that Mr. Stone mentioned in that segment.
OW	Had Oliver Stone not done that movie and put such pressure on the government to release them we wouldn't have them today. Isn't that true?
TUN	Well, he certainly put a lot of pressure on the Congress and constituents put a lot of pressure on the Congress.
OW	Till the 21st century?? What good is that going to do us?
TUN	Well these records should have been released many years ago.
OW	Why weren't they?
TUN	Well, there's a culture of secrecy. Many of the records are at the CIA, at the FBI and we're doing our best to get them released as quickly as possible.
OW	John has some film that has never been released before. It was shot by a key aide to President Kennedy who was with him in Dallas that day 33 years ago. John, why don't you tell us what we're looking at as we watch the tape.
	[portions of the Dave Powers film are shown]
TUN (V.O.)	This is a film that was shot by a very close presidential aide, Dave Powers, being released today for the first time. He was riding in the limousine right behind the President as they began that fateful journey down Main Street. Unfortunately, the tape stops shortly before they turn onto Dealey Plaza. The man had quite a window on the Presidential limo as you see it taking its path down Main Street there and before long it will turn just before it reaches Dealey Plaza, Dave Powers runs out of film.
MOP	Can I ask you a question?
TUN	Certainly.
MOP	Do you have children?
TUN	I do.
MOP	Wonderful. Do you love this country?
TUN	I do.
MOP	Then we have lots in common. Do you have a conscience? I hope so. I think you do.
TUN	Well, we're looking for the truth which is what I think you want to find too.
MOP	Well, yes, I appreciate that. Somebody has to do it and I'm glad the Committee is, but there is too much nonsense and there's a big stack -- lots of paper -- save the trees -- get the papers that got the answers. 33 years is too long for me to wait. I want my children and your children living in a country as good as we are or a little bit better. This is our obligation -- that's the only reason that I'm asking you.
OW	You say there are specific documents that need to be released.
MOP	There are some documents which the FBI is supposed to release. This is the man in the audience, Mr. Walters. [looking at Tunheim] I wrote a letter to you. You didn't respond, but Mr. Walters did. So, he said, in general, that (the) FBI opinion is that they do not want to release this. It's something I've known for 33 years. Did you read the letter?
TUN	Yes, I did.
MOP	I said a second time, would you please be so kind and request the documents first? Go to Minsk and see it. There is nothing there. It is a waste of (the) taxpayers' money. I read yesterday in a book documents from Minsk -- my registration of marriage to Lee Harvey Oswald dated April 31 -- I went to 5 calendars -- April only has 30 days -- so this is how accurate they are. So, please don't waste your time.
OW	So, Marina is saying there are a lot of things being released, Mr. Tunheim, a lot of things being released that really are not going to help us learn anything. There are millions and millions of pages and she's saying that there are specific pages that would give the American people the answers that we want, so just release those papers and let us be healed.
TUN	If those papers were in our hands they would be released. We are following up on her request and doing our best and we've asked her to cooperate as well with obtaining access to Lee Harvey Oswald's tax files which could give us some more of an inquiry into this person.
OW	Coming up, the FBI got a tip . . .
MOP	[interrupts] It's nonsense.
OW	You're saying his tax files aren't going to tell them anything?
MOP	Absolutely nothing. It's more important then you can have his tax files in 75 years and examine everything. It's not important.
LAF	But it IS important.
OW	We just want it to be over. We'd like to know what the truth is and then have it be over.
MOP	So you can go on with your life.
TUN	That's really our job. We have a strong presumption of openness and there's only a very little amount of material that's being redacted from the records for reasons of national security, but they don't have any relationship to the assassination itself. The records themselves are being released. 2 to 3 million pages right now are available at the National Archives. We're looking for more.
OW	Coming up: the FBI got a tip before President Kennedy was killed, warning of an assassination plot. When we come back, we'll meet the FBI man who got that warning. Hear how it is linked back to Oswald -- in just a moment.
	We're talking with Marina Oswald Porter, the widow of Lee Harvey Oswald, on the 33rd anniversary of the death of President Kennedy. She's here with Mary LaFontaine who's written a book with new evidence in this case called "Oswald Talked." One of the people Mary interviewed was William Walters who is a former FBI agent who is also with us today. William got a teletype warning of an assassination plot days just before President Kennedy was killed and how was that handled?
WW	Oprah, the FBI office in New Orleans was one of the field offices that had a responsibility to cover what the FBI called "the movement of the President of the U.S.". We received the teletype on Sunday morning prior to the assassination as well as other offices of the FBI field office chain.
OW	That there was a plot?
WW	That information had been developed by an informant somewhere around the country -- that there would be an attempt to assassinate the President on his trip to Dallas.
OW	And how was that handles?
WW	Well, my responsibility at that time was to report it to my supervisors and then the case agents that handle those kinds of "movement" teletypes -- I did, in fact, call the the special agent in charge of the New Orleans office that early morning hours of Sunday, and, then, in turn, called the case agents and asked them to develop contacts with their informants to determine if there was any validity to that warning threat.
OW	And?
WW	Well, I, of course, left the office the following morning and didn't think much of it because it was not much of an unusual kind of teletype for the FBI to get. In this particular case Friday afternoon it became very important to determine what happened to the teletype and I, along with some other colleagues of mine, searched the office and found that the teletype had been pulled out of the file and was on the SAIC's desk and couldn't determine if an investigation or, if informants had been contacted during the week, so I couldn't really know what happened to it.
OW	Why is this significant?
LAF	It's significant because the teletype that Mr. Walters made a copy of back 33 years ago has disappeared from the FBI files. It contains information about a group that we know that Lee Harvey Oswald was infiltrating for the FBI and we believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was the informant gave the information about the teletype Mr. Walters received. He didn't know that. At the time he only knew he got a teletype. He also saw an informant file on Lee Harvey Oswald in the New Orleans FBI office. He gave this as sworn testimony to the HSCA many years ago. His testimony was only released recently and these important details are finally connecting the many pieces that we've gotten over the years in this case. It was very significant.
OW	This is probably going to be one of my final times to be able to talk to you because it;s taken so long to talk the first time . . .
MOP	I don't want to go from show to show but I want people to know maybe the next year, to know for sure that Lee Harvey Oswald did not kill President Kennedy. The shots didn't even come from the window and Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't proved to be at that window. So it all was set up and the blame was put on that person. So that you have to know. Without honest, historical facts, you cannot plan your life.
OW	How do your children -- I know you re-married and your current husband raised your daughters, but did they have this monkey on their backs also?
MOP	I hope not. I tried to raise them, not in a glass shelter, but to protect them from . . .
OW	What do you tell them about their father?
MOP	Well, at the time, I told them that your father is guilty in my opinion. That's a horrible crime -- you have to be strong enough to deal with it and you should be judged only by what you contribute and what you do. (If) you do bad, you deserve the punishment and don't hide behind it. So, they turned out to be good American citizens. So I give them my best. I'm only the mother and I raised decent human beings.
OW	We'll be right back. [to marina] That's the best you can do.
	Thank you Marina Oswald Porter for joining us today.